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Cherida Smith: Do not count somebody out based on their gig. You don't know what else they have going on. Oftentimes you have a lot of different other skills. You have a lot of different other networks that you can tap into. That is so key with the gig economy and building community across the gig economy because folks have so many different networks that they can tap into and different resources that can be shared.

Jill Finlayson: Welcome to the Future of Work Podcast with Berkeley Extension and the EDGE in Tech Initiative at the University of California focused on expanding diversity and gender equity in tech. EDGE in Tech is part of CITRIS, the Center For IT Research in the Interest of Society and the Banatao Institute.

In this episode, we look at gig work and managing a career on your terms and time. Work is no longer a place. It is something that you do, and it's often about how much time you put into that thing that you do. The pandemic showed us that employees are taking hold of their careers, whether it be the great resignation or the idea of quiet quitting. They're finding greater satisfaction and a stronger work life balance by partaking in the burgeoning gig economy. And especially in Silicon Valley, they're moonlighting.

What was once considered side hustles, the gig economy has become so much more. It's quickly becoming dollar industry that offers more choices and more opportunities. Whether it's partaking in the rideshare as a driver or working as a consultant in the project economy, we are seeing a shift. Is it the demise of the full time employee? Or is it a change in how everyone works? What does this mean for organizations who need employees or contractors with hyper specialized skills in order to remain relevant? What are the pros and the pitfalls of this new gig landscape? And who is best able to survive and thrive?

To explore the role of gig work in the future of work and how companies and gig workers can best work together, we speak with Cherida Smith, gig economy and Future of Work strategist and advisor. Cherida is blazing a trail for entrepreneurship among women and people of color in the gig economy. She's a community builder, a gig work advocate, an advisor, and has led community efforts for nearly 1 million gig workers through advocacy work at Lyft and California's Yes on Prop 22 campaign.

Cherida's gig work journey began as a part time rideshare driver and led to her speaking on behalf of gig workers alongside US Vice President Kamala Harris at the National Urban League Legislative Policy Conference. She rang the NASDAQ opening bell on stage beside Lyft founders and organized gig workers across California. She has relied on the gig economy not only to earn a living but to excel professionally.

She is a future work strategist and advisor on the gig economy with her own CDS Global Consulting Group and is also the Alumni Relations Portfolio Manager at Goodie Nation. Goodie Nation is a networking community that helps eliminate the relationship gap that stands in the way of success for too many promising entrepreneurs, especially those who are people of color, women, or those who aren't located in the coastal financial centers. Cherida hopes to encourage others to lean into the flexibility of the gig economy to pursue their wildest dreams and create the life they deserve. Welcome, Cherida. Let's get into it.

Cherida Smith: Hi Jill. Thank you so much for having me. What an honor this is.

Jill Finlayson: This is going to be a lot of fun, and I really appreciate you taking the time to share your journey and your expertise today. This is going to be fantastic.

Cherida Smith: Absolutely. We're going to have fun today.

Jill Finlayson: So tell me, what is the gig economy? Just give me a definition. And why do you think it's key to giving people the flexibility to create the life they desire?

Cherida Smith: Let's see. The gig economy. The gig economy is simply a labor marketplace where workers are untethered to employers. Traditionally we would call these jobs independent contract jobs or freelance jobs or 1099s. But now it has become something that is undeniable as far as our economy goes. The future of work is here, which means that we're going to see a lot of jobs that are temporary, that are contract, and don't rely on having an employee employer relationship. So the future of work is here. These untethered jobs are not going anywhere and the gig economy is the best place to thrive in our economy.

Jill Finlayson: Amazing. I really like untethered and undeniable. So these are two factors that are really changing the game in how we work today. So why do you think it's important to have this mode to give people greater flexibility? Why can't we do this in the workplace as it stands today?

Cherida Smith: We absolutely are doing it in the world today. We've been doing it in the world today. It just became more prevalent and important in the onset of COVID-19. Gig work has been going on for years. I mean, people who have been working freelance jobs for decades. Nothing about a freelancer is new. But when you think about gig work, I mean, when I first was introduced to the idea of gig work, it was by way of app based gigs. So like TaskRabbit or Uber or Lyft. And it kind of has-- there's a little bit of a negative connotation when it comes to gigs because there's this idea that it's so unpredictable.

The way that I envision the world and our economy is that people ought to be able to lean into the gig economy as a gateway and use gig work as a gateway to advance their careers otherwise. It doesn't have to just be a short term situation. It absolutely can be, but it doesn't have to. You totally can walk into your gig and walk in as a Lyft driver and come out as a policy communications expert. That's the way I see it.

Jill Finlayson: Amazing. So gig work as a gateway and also taking your point that this is not anything that's new, but there's been this huge uptick and COVID kind of triggered a major shift in how many people thought about this work. But I think also it changed that perception, because I think you're right. There was this sort of feeling that it was piecemeal work, that it wasn't as prestigious, but now it's seen very differently.

Cherida Smith: Yes, absolutely. I got a lot of backlash for being a gig worker. My introduction to the gig economy was by way of being a Lyft driver, a rideshare driver. And so many people counted me out because of that. But at the time, I really enjoyed the nature of my gig. I really enjoyed being able to earn money while I'm driving people around. It was just like the perfect recipe or the perfect remedy for my personality.

So even when people would look down on me or make certain comments about that's crazy. Why do you want to have strangers in your car? To me it was just perfect. This is the perfect invention made specifically for me. You got to watch out for these gigs. You never know how they will grow. You never know how they will transform your life experience and how you may use them to help other people.

Jill Finlayson: I mean, this is exactly what we're talking about. This is a disruptive technology. I actually worked at eBay back in the day and people were saying similar things. Like how can you send money to somebody you don't know? How do you know you'll get your item? Your question is the same, right? Why should I get in a car with somebody I don't know? And yet now this has become absolutely commonplace and understood as a viable method of transportation.

Cherida Smith: Yeah, that's actually so funny. Because once upon a time, you're right, people probably did think it was wild and crazy to be sending money to get items from strangers. Who does that, right? But who doesn't do it now?

Jill Finlayson: Exactly. So maybe you can walk us through, because you've already told us started out in this driving and rideshare industry. But what is your story? How did you become a gig worker and how has that kind of transitioned over time?

Cherida Smith: I became a gig worker in 2014. At the time, I was a full time teacher. I was teaching English as a second language out in Washington, DC to early childhood students. And it wasn't a job that was my passion. I didn't think that I would be a teacher forever. But in the summer, teachers have the summers off. And I used that as an opportunity to take my car down to Atlanta. And I wanted to be able to make some money while I was there with my summer off. Couldn't sign up for Uber because I didn't have Georgia tags. So I couldn't become an Uber driver.

But Lyft didn't have a problem. Now, at the time, Lyft was not as popular as Uber. So I was really being wild and crazy and adventurous by taking a shot at them. Because this is also back in the days when they had the pink furry mustache that was on the front of the cars. I don't know if you remember. So I've actually never put the mustache on my car not one time. Wow, I just said that out loud.

[LAUGHS]

This is my first time saying that out loud. Wow. So anyway, I gave one ride. And it happened to be to a woman that was heading to the CDC in Atlanta. And by the time I drove all the way out there, and it wasn't popular at the time, so I didn't I didn't get a buzz again. And it just, I was turned off. It was kind of scary. I'm like, oh, I don't think I want to do this anymore.

But once I went back up to DC where I lived, where I was actually teaching, I picked it up then. And I did it on the weekends and I did it after work. And I started actually really, really, really liking. It wasn't just an opportunity for money. It became something that was a hobby of mine. It started feeling Lyft was just the perfect answer, the perfect solution. My passengers used to think that I was so brave and bold and daring for being a woman and being a rideshare driver. Like wow, you're so zany from California. And I'm like, wow, this is actually something that just comes to me with ease. I love it. I did that for a couple of years. And then I ended up relocating to the San Francisco Bay Area going back home.

So anyway, I did eventually get a full time job working as a program coordinator for San Francisco Unified School District. So I got back into the classroom. So I did that for about a year and a half. But I used to have to make that commute back to Oakland every day. And the commute, for anybody who knows what it's like to drive from where Candlestick Park used to be to Oakland every day, that was really, really, really horrible. So I used to just Lyft after work. I started finding ways to make it make sense for me.

So Lyft just consistently was something that always could fill a gap for me. If I was pivoting personally, if I was pivoting professionally. I had just moved home. I was trying to figure out what my next move was. I was a Lyft driver. It kept me afloat. When I got a job but I didn't want to sit in traffic for hours a day, I would earn money instead by driving Lyft. So Lyft just became something that for me it just always resonated and it always added value to my life.

See, so in 2017, I was working as a consultant for a justice policy consulting firm in Oakland. And I was there for only five months until I got fired. I was pretty deflated, because I really liked that job. I thought that it was the job for me. I think this is the job that I finally earned after getting a master's and after going to Spelman. This is the job for me. So I was pretty deflated afterwards. And I just didn't have the heart to try to apply for jobs again. I didn't have the heart to become vulnerable in that way again.

But I knew one thing for certain that I was really, really, really good at was being a rideshare driver. And I knew that it would bring me peace. And I knew that it was something that constantly getting great feedback throughout the day. This is good for my mental health. This is good for my ego. This is good. Like yes, they love me, my passengers. I just felt like I could give myself permission to drive for a year full time and see what would come on the other side of that.

Jill Finlayson: You know what I really like about that story so far, and I know there's more to come, but what I really like about it is this idea of pivoting and the driving filling a gap. It becomes this tool for transitioning to whatever the next thing is. And I do think you're both brave and bold. So I don't think that that was wrong when people were saying for you jumping into Lyft. I think that was spot on.

[LAUGHS]

Cherida Smith: I view it differently now. Back then, I mean, it would feel like an insult. Now it's like, OK, I was on to something. You know? I should have been more present. But I had no idea where I was going.

Jill Finlayson: So let's pick up the story where we left off. You knew you were good at driving, so you were going to go back. Yeah.

Cherida Smith: So that year I decided to pick up Uber. I decided to pick up Zoom. Zoom is rideshare services for children. So I juggled those three. I was able to set a schedule for myself and stick to a schedule. I set a goal for myself, a daily goal, a weekly goal. I would give myself breaks. I would make myself lunch. I took it very seriously like it was my real job, because it absolutely was. And I gave myself permission to do it for one year.

And being in the Bay Area, I just never knew who I was going to meet or where I was going to go. That's really the value. I mean, I love that part. I missed that part about rideshare so much. You just never know who you're going to meet. And there's so many opportunities.

So towards the end of that year, I got a notice from Lyft asking about people who wanted to participate in their Driver Advisory Council. And the prompt was something about do you love to drive Lyft? Do you really value your community? Do you want to be the voice of your community? OK, maybe if I signed up with them and I get this role, maybe I can meet somebody at headquarters and perhaps get a job or figure out what my next move could be. So I was desperate. And it actually sounded kind of fun.

So I waited. I didn't hear back for a few months. And then come December, I heard that I was expected to submit a YouTube video. I actually ended up submitting that late. And I was distraught because I'm like, there's my shot in the dark and I blew it.

[LAUGHS]

What am I going to do now? But then a month later, or less than a month later, a few weeks later actually, I had a phone call from them telling me that I had been selected. And not only had I been selected to represent my community, I was expected to bridge the gap between all of the drivers in the entire Pacific region, which includes California, Hawaii, and Nevada. And I would be sitting at the tables, across the tables at headquarters representing the voice and the opinions of the drivers and trying to get their needs met.

Jill Finlayson: That's both amazing and high profile but also a lot of pressure to represent all those people.

Cherida Smith: Yes, actually it was, because I thought that they were simply referring to Oakland. I thought it was like a community thing, it was like a local thing. So it was just really one of the best surprises I could have ever received. But it was the thing that I was waiting for. This is what I held out for. This is why this year was actually worth it, because I knew that an opportunity that was perfect for me was going to fall into my lap based on the hard work that I was putting in as a rideshare driver and really taking it seriously and owning it.

Jill Finlayson: Amazing. So how did that role change what your responsibilities were? What was the thing that this brought to you that you hadn't had as a driver?

Cherida Smith: That I hadn't had as a driver? So during that time, I actually still did drive. And it behooved me to, because I needed to know what my drivers were experiencing. But now I'm taking all of my feedback and all of the feedback from different drivers that I'm talking to and sharing it with headquarters trying to get changes made. I called it my on the road tour.

I took it upon myself to drive throughout my markets and I set up meetings with the different Lyft staff members and the different drivers to try to nail down these local driver advisory councils. Whereas my Driver Advisory Council was the national cohort, there were several local ones. And during my time on the Driver Advisory Council, that's what I championed for. The women's driver experience and also the local driver advisory councils.

So anyway, that was a really fulfilling time, because there was not anybody that was at corporate or anywhere that was doing that. And it was just something that I was good at that I liked to do. I got a chance to drive around, stay with different relatives, and spend time with my family in different cities that I never typically spend time with. And also fill these gaps for these drivers and see what the on the road experience was like in person across my region. So I really, really, really owned it. I can say that.

Jill Finlayson: That's great. And I think it also says something about Lyft that they really wanted to get the driver's voice in there and make sure that they understood these people who were integral to their business model. So how did that lead to the California Yes on Prop 22 campaign? Because there are always two sides to every story and not everybody was on board with the gig working. So tell me about what is the Prop 22 campaign and how did you get involved with that?

Cherida Smith: Yeah. So Yes on Prop 22 was the fight for independent contractors to remain independent contractors. There was an Assembly Bill called Assembly Bill AB5 that was set in California. And it impacted all freelancers across the state of California. Lyft and Uber and DoorDash and Instacart and those guys, they put the money together to make sure that their business models were not affected by this rule. And the rule basically said that if you are performing duties for a company, you have to become actually an employee. Or certain duties for a company, you have to become an employee.

But unfortunately for the rideshare companies, that would completely have undermined their business models and they would have had to lose probably a lot of drivers. And the world relies on rideshare and food delivery services now and that would have cut down a lot of opportunities for people to get around and people get food. Lyft and those guys wanted for drivers to remain independent contractors instead of having to become employees.

And I felt the same way. So I felt very clear about the work that I was getting ready to do on that campaign and the fact that I would never have driven Lyft if I had to be an employee. It was never my intent or my desire to be a full time rideshare driver. I could have signed up for Yellow Cab had that been the case. But it was the nature of the flexibility and the untetheredness that made it so attractive, not only for me, but for all of the other folks that voted yes as well.

Jill Finlayson: Amazing. So I kind of want to reflect on some of the things you said earlier, which were you kept a schedule. You had a goal. You went to lunch. You really focused and treated this as a commitment, a full time professional job. And so I'm curious, based on all your conversations with all these drivers and your own experience, what skills do you think you need in order to be a successful gig worker?

Cherida Smith: You know, I like that question because-- so there are hundreds of gigs out there. I think that the key to being a successful gig worker generally is just having the desire and the ability to pivot, honestly.

Jill Finlayson: It's really exciting to hear this, because when we think about the future of work and any job that you might take, having skills like empathy, being able to read the room, being able to build relationships, being able to network, I think earlier you talked about you never knew who you were going to meet in your car. And that might be an opportunity for you to open a new door or another opportunity. So I think these are really solid skills that will take you far in any career.

Cherida Smith: Absolutely. Absolutely. I never thought about it that way, actually, Jill. But you're so right about that. It's a lot of people skills required to be at least a good rideshare driver. Do not count somebody out based on their gig. Don't do it. You don't know what else they have going on. You just don't know.

Thing about it, gig workers, oftentimes you have a lot of different other skills. You have a lot of different other networks that you can tap into. So that is so key with the gig economy and building community across the gig economy, because folks have so many different networks that they can tap into and different resources that can be shared.

Jill Finlayson: These different gigs give you skills. They give you experiences. They connect you with people. They build networks. And so it is this very-- I like the word you used, pivot. You have to be able to pivot and be different things to different people or read the room and shift. And that's skills that I think come in handy as excellent leaders. To be a leader, you need those skills.

Cherida Smith: Oh, true, absolutely. Absolutely.

Jill Finlayson: So I got another question for you. We kind of talked about what it takes to be a successful gig worker. What do you think it takes to be a successful company that engages gig workers? What is their role to ensure that the worker's voice is heard and to provide fair treatment and compensation?

Cherida Smith: I think that what is the most important to do is to have some type of advocacy group or some type of council of peers. Because oftentimes your workforce is not going to tell you how they're really, really feeling. I think that it's a really good idea to designate a group of people, a team of people, a few different point people that are workers that can help bridge the gap similar to what I was doing at Lyft. Being able to relay that feedback, being able to advocate for what the worker's needs are.

Because these companies, they don't know what they don't know. Employers, anyone who works with independent contractors, but you don't know what you don't know and you don't know what you're missing about what your workers actually need. And it's a very sensitive subject. People are not always going to want to be honest with the people that are paying them. So I think if you have someone in the middle that looks like you and that can understand your concerns, you can't go wrong.

Jill Finlayson: Yeah. I love that. Just to hit that bridge the gap, relay feedback, express what the needs really are, because the people who are designing these companies don't know what they don't know. They don't know what the experience is to be in the front line. So kind of moving on from that, you became an advisor on gig working. Tell me how that happened. How did you transition and what are the types of things that you do? Do you go advise these companies now on best practices? How does that work?

Cherida Smith: By the end of those two years, I walked away with this brand new set of eyes. And I now have experienced the rideshare industry at every level and have matriculated through the industry from a worker to advocating at the corporate level then to advocating at this campaign level. And that was the first time that a tech company had ever participated in something like that. So now I have had all of these unique experiences all together. It's like, wow, I guess you are an expert here now.

So for the past couple of years, I have participated with these expert networks where a company will identify me as an expert, as a gig economy expert or a future of work expert, and typically the clients are abroad. And more than not, these expert calls are double blind. I don't know who they are. They don't know who I am. And they pay me to talk for an hour about whatever gig economy or future work related topic it is.

Jill Finlayson: Yeah. Amazing. And so let's talk about the future. Let's talk about the future of work. Where is gig working going? And what do gig workers need or want? Does something need to change? Does something need to be preserved? What do you kind of see as the future here?

Cherida Smith: Well, we really need policies to be put in place for us. And the problem with what's going on now with the gig economy, Biden administration just proposed a bill that is going to be very similar to AB5, similar to what Prop 22 was fighting against. So if we see a federal AB5, and the federal version of the AB5 is called the PRO Act, the Protect the Right to Organize Act, that's going to be a problem for gig workers and companies that hire gig workers.

It's going to be a big, big, big problem. Such a big problem that the California ballot measure was $200 million. That was how much they felt like it was worth to preserve the right for independent contractors. So to see that possibly happen again for us on the federal level is really scary.

But lawmakers, they are trying their best to do what's right for the people. And I think that because that ballot measure was so expensive and that big tech had the money to spend on it, it gives the impression as though that they kind bought the vote. But it's really, really disheartening for those of us who are actually doing the work that do know the value of being an independent contractor and not having an employer. The independent contract lifestyle, the freelance lifestyle, the gig lifestyle allows you to be so flexible and allows you to make life work on your own terms.

So what's happening now with this new bill or the potential of this new bill, it's going to take that away from people. And the future of work is here. It's not going anywhere. It's only growing. But I don't think there's enough information out there from actual gig workers that are really expressing what our true need is and our true needs are.

Jill Finlayson: Kind of spinning from that, a lot of people who do gig work learn a lot of skills about being their own boss and running their own company. And some of them then actually turn to becoming a startup founder or a small business owner. You yourself have created a consulting company. So can you talk to me a little bit about are there skills that transition really well to starting your own small business?

Cherida Smith: That requires a particular drive for that human to have. I don't think the gig economy can do that for you. But I don't think that it's prescriptive. I don't think that that's the expectation. But if that person had it in their heart to be a restaurant owner from the beginning or they had it in their heart to be a business owner from the beginning or it's just they're naturally inclined to have an entrepreneurial mindset, then them driving DoorDash was always just a means to an end in the first place. So it's not that the gig can pour certain skills into you. But it's more so I think just the mentality of the person and their ability to rely on these gigs to hold them up while they are pursuing bigger and greater goals.

Jill Finlayson: So gig workers like to be very independent and kind of control their time. Startup founders want to be their own boss. Do you see that there is much of a number of people who have done gig work who go into startups? Or are those very different populations?

Cherida Smith: I think that they're very different populations because they have different goals. So startup founders, they have a problem that they're trying to solve. A real world problem. Their passion comes from deep within. Something that's happened in their family, something that's happened to them. It's coming from their heart. I'm not saying that gig workers don't have their reason why. Absolutely they do. But a gig tends to be less about passion unless you are working gigs because you're pursuing another passion.

I can totally see being a startup founder trying to solve a particular problem and a freelance writer on the side. They happen to be good at writing. Or a DoorDash driver on the side to pick up a couple extra bucks. So I see folks leaning into the gig economy to help prop themselves up while they are pursuing their own particular passions.

Jill Finlayson: That's brilliant. And I would love to learn more about startup founders themselves. So these folks who have a passion, and to your point, have a real problem that they want to solve, something that is compelling from their lives. Have you worked with many startup founders? Because I understand you also work with the Goodie Nation. So maybe you could tell us a little bit about that.

Cherida Smith: Yeah, yeah. So I do work with a lot of startup founders. I made my way over to this awesome organization called Goodie Nation that's based out of Atlanta. And Goodie Nation is kind of a post accelerator or startup founders but for diverse startup founders. So for underrepresented startup founders. Women, founders of color. And we are actually the official partner to Google For Startups. US Google For Startups. And that means that when Google For Startups gets money to fund Black and Brown founders, it goes through our program and our founders.

So based on my experience as a community organizer, I got connected with the head of Goodie Nation while he was trying to flesh out his program and expand his program as more and more founders were entering. And we decided that I would help build out their alumni program. So now I work with the founders that have matriculated through the regular programming and are now alumni. And I connect them to each other and to other opportunities.

Jill Finlayson: So another area you've kind of developed a real core expertise in is community building. It sounds like you built community at Lyft. Now you're building community over at Goodie Nation. So tell me a little bit what are the barriers that startup or small business founders face and why might people of color face even more barriers or challenges when they're trying to start their small business?

Cherida Smith: Well, there is a huge relationship gap. And lots of folks of color and folks that are of diverse backgrounds, they don't have the same type of resources. They have a lack of funding, lack of customers, lack of people that they can hire, or that can give advice to them. So there's definitely a barrier that founders that are traditional white founders, that they don't have the same type of hang ups that we do.

Jill Finlayson: I like that phrase relationship gap. I think that does cover a lot of ground. And the numbers certainly bear this out. I think less than 2% of VC funding goes to solo women founders. Less than 1% go to women of color founders. And so why do you think that is that venture capital is so challenging? And do we see the same problem for small business?

Because when you hear about venture capitalists, they're often talking about tell me about this scalable company that's going to become a multibillion dollar company. Whereas some people want to start a small business, which is the backbone for the US and generating jobs and revenue, and they don't plan to scale globally. So they don't sort of fit the VC model, if that makes sense. So I'm just trying to think we've got these different groups of people who are trying to start businesses. How can we help them?

Cherida Smith: I'm from Oakland. So my first experience with the startup world is Silicon Valley. And I know Silicon Valley to be typically it's not a whole lot of color that's running through Silicon Valley. It's not a whole lot of activity and companies that are being created that are of color out of Silicon Valley. I've seen that. So now working with Goodie Nation and seeing how Atlanta is the Black hub for startups of color startup ecosystem that's in Atlanta is mind blowing.

And when you say what can be done to bridge that gap, I think what our community has done, and when I say our community I mean the Black community, what we have done, and it's happened in Atlanta, have created an ecosystem for ourselves, kind of a for us bias in a sense. I hear founders all the time talk about how they missed different opportunities or they're overlooked by so many opportunities because of their color. That's something that still happens.

So with the community with Goodie Nation, it's over 500 founders that are, like I said, either Black, Latino, Pacific Islander, women, and we stand in the gap for each other. So I think that perhaps folks have become so exhausted of getting turned away or turned down from different capital, different opportunities, and they just said we'll go get it ourselves. And that's the world that I'm currently working in.

Jill Finlayson: We've covered a lot of ground. We've covered a lot of ground from your origin story, your driving to the gig economy to the proposition to now entrepreneurs and startups. As we bring this to a close, I'm thinking about what can you share with folks that will help them in their career journey as they're trying to figure out their path? What kind of advice do you have for them?

Cherida Smith: If I can say it in three words, I would say find your pivot.

Jill Finlayson: Say more.

Cherida Smith: Find a way and make a way. My pivot was the decision to actually hunker down and commit to being a real Lyft driver. That was my pivot. It was like I had to pivot in my mind. And it actually was a difficult decision to make, because during that time, I really wanted to keep applying for jobs and going to interviews and all of that. But my energy was so depleted. I truly had to have a change of heart. And I really had to mental pivot. You have permission to rely on this one gig for one year and give it your all and see what happens on the other side of it.

I encourage everybody to pick up at least one gig. One or two gigs. You never know how it can free up your time, how it can introduce you to something new that you might like that you didn't know that you were like, or how about it introduces you to something that you're good at and you didn't know that you were good at it. It could connect you to different relationships. But I think that for anybody that's been in my predicament to definitely lean into the gig economy, it's there for you to take advantage of.

Whereas working a 9:00 to 5:00, I kind of feel taken advantage of by the employer. I'm on their time. I'm on their terms. But with gigs, there's so many of them, you can find the ones you like and lean into those. So I mean, I still do gigs. I still keep a couple of gigs myself. I believe in it truly. And I think that there should be more people that walk into their gigs and walk out with more skills or more life experiences that are valuable and more opportunities for you.

Jill Finlayson: Amazing. Walk in to your gig and walk out with more skills. Lean in to take advantage of the flexibility rather than being taken advantage of. And find that thing you're good at. Build those relationships. It sounds like used correctly, as they say, gig work can really be a huge opportunity to pivot and shift and find that thing that you want to do.

Cherida Smith: Absolutely. And there are a lot of institutions that will take advantage of people. But this is something that you can take advantage of. Absolutely.

Jill Finlayson: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Cherida. Any last words that you want to leave with us or with our listeners?

Cherida Smith: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I would like to invite anybody who's listening to connect with me on LinkedIn. Cherida D Smith, Cherida with a C. I would be happy to connect with people. And if anybody has questions about how to work with their gig workers or how to manage these communities, please reach out. I'm totally happy to talk with you.

Jill Finlayson: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Cherida Smith: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, Jill.

Jill Finlayson: And with that, I hope that our listeners have enjoyed this latest in a long series of podcasts that we're sending their way every month. Please share with friends and colleagues who may be interested in taking this future of work journey with us. And make sure to check out extension.berkeley.edu to find a variety of courses to help you thrive in this new working landscape. And to see what's up at EDGE in Tech, go ahead and visit edge.berkeley.edu.

Thanks so much for listening, and I'll be back next month to talk with a couple of our past guests about their predictions for 2023. Until next time.

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