Creating Your Agile Mindset

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Pepe Valiente: It is about the art of possibilities. We have been discussing about, should I stop? Should I continue doing what I'm doing as a machine? Or am I more human, and am I enjoying what I'm doing or not? So if you understand that agility is there for you to understand what are the trends, understand that you can pivot, that you can change, that you can adapt and understand that as a skill that you can have, you will flow. You will flow with the world. 

Jill Finlayson: Welcome to The Future of Work podcast, with Berkeley Extension and EDGE in Tech at the University of California, focused on expanding diversity and gender equity in tech. EDGE in Tech is part of the Innovation Hub at CITRIS, the Center for IT Research in the Interest of Society, and the Banatao Institute. UC Berkeley Extension is the continuing education arm of the University of California at Berkeley. 

In today's job market, careers don't move in straight lines. They evolve, iterate, and sometimes pivot, often when you least expect it. That's why treating your career like a static plan no longer works. In this episode, we're exploring how to approach your career and job search with an agile mindset, borrowing from both modern product development thinking and from an unexpected source of inspiration, the Japanese concept of ikigai, a philosophy around your reason for being and what brings you purpose, joy, and fulfillment. We'll talk about how small experiments can lead to big clarity, why progress beats perfection, and how staying flexible helps you respond to change without losing your sense of self. 

To discuss this topic, we're delighted to welcome Pepe Valiente, who is a global product and innovation leader with more than 25 years of experience driving complex initiatives across aerospace, the electric sector, consulting, retail, and software. Having lived in four countries and founded three companies, Pepe brings a unique blend of entrepreneurial grit, corporate and cross-cultural perspective, and deep technical leadership to every challenge he tackles. 

Today, Pepe leads product creation and innovation initiatives within IBM Software, where he focuses on building high-impact solutions that help organizations scale, transform, and deliver exceptional customer value, and always with an agile mindset at the core. Pepe is a dedicated UC Berkeley Extension course instructor on project management and agile. When he's not shipping products or teaching, you'll likely find him on the water, steering dragon boats just for fun. Welcome, Pepe. 

Pepe Valiente: Hey, Jill, thank you so much for having me. 

Jill Finlayson: Well, I have to start with dragon boats. What is this, and how did you get involved in-- I think this is a super competitive but relatively new activity for you? 

Pepe Valiente: It is, it is. So first and foremost, dragon boating is a team sport. So imagine this. 20 people paddling together, one drummer setting the pace, and one steerer setting the direction. We are racing against other boats. And as in business, timing, direction, and the team-- no heroes-- is important. 

The funny part is that although I enjoy paddling, which is what we do-- we paddle-- we don't row, we paddle-- I have specialized as a steer person. And I think that this is funny, because the steer person is the person who sets the direction, who is responsible for the safety of the boat and the right alignment. That makes this position very, very special. 

And today, I'm going to talk about agility and how I can make a good analogy about it. Well, as a steerer, often you are under a lot of pressure. You have many things. There are many variables that are out there and that you need to be in control. So you need to stay calm before making any decision. Safety first. 

But also you know that you need to push it, because you are in competition. You want to win. You want your team to succeed. So learn how to balance that boat, how to read the current, how to understand the wind, and how other teams are performing will make you be successful. So take action based on what you see in the water. 

Jill Finlayson: Great. You've talked about how agile informed your role there, but how has being in the dragon boat informed how you work with other people? 

Pepe Valiente: This is great, because it's a great exercise. Because when you are the steers person, you are in control of the boat. You're in control of what's happening. And everyone needs to follow, so you need to be very clear of what is the instruction that you want them to follow. 

So imagine that in this sport, if you are not paddling together, if you are not in sync, the boat will not move. And the steerer's role is about understanding what the team members are doing, understanding the different variables around you, because it's important that you can react and make the right decision. 

If the wind is blowing this situation, if the current is going this other way, maybe other boats. I have been in races where you have the perfect setup. Your team is completely balanced. Everything is going well. But then there's another team that loses control and goes after you. 

So how do you react to that? How do you make that decision without jeopardizing the race, without jeopardizing the safety? So those are the critical decisions that you need to make as you are competing. 

Jill Finlayson: That's an exciting moment to think it's not necessarily your plans going away but someone else's. And how do you react to that? How do you respond to those challenges? And having that agile mindset, but having everybody with a shared vision, everybody knowing what the goal is and what you're paddling toward, that has a real parallel in the workplace. 

Pepe Valiente: Totally. And actually, it's very interesting that you mentioned that, because we all have a job. We all have a role that we need to meet. And there are techniques. There are strategies that you need to follow. 

The person in front is the person who is called the drummer. This person is setting the pace, so that means the strategy. in dragon boat we have 200 meters. Other competitions are 500 meters, and others are 2K. You cannot tackle those races in the same way. You cannot sprint all the time. You will be burned, burn out. So at the end of the day, strategy matters, as in business. 

Jill Finlayson: In addition to obviously being in a dragon boat, you have a full-time job. And so let's talk about that a little bit. You've pivoted across four countries, across industries, aerospace to retail. When did you realize that your career wasn't going to follow a straight line?

Pepe Valiente: That is a great question. Definitely there is not a straight line. For me, it was clear at the moment when I graduated from university. I'm an industrial engineer. And the moment I started looking for a job, what happened was that I realized that industrial engineers are expected to work on shop floors in quality and process controls. And what I understood is that was not me, that I wanted to do something different. 

And I realized that what I wanted to do was to focus more on the business side, to understand how business are conducted in different industries, across countries, across different places and areas of expertise. What I ended up deciding is that I wanted to study an MBA. And studying an MBA was a pivotal change for me, because it allowed me to get into a different territory, which is more how to conduct business. I did it in a different country. So for me, it was very mind-opening, a great experience. 

As part of the master's, I did some internships, specifically in the aerospace area. And one thing took me to the next one, to the next one. So at the end of the day, that internship converted into a full-time job. So before I actually finished the master's, I had a job. And that was very interesting, because I needed to combine working hours with finishing the degree. Building relationships as well is something that helped me a lot, both in the school, as at the industry. 

Jill Finlayson: You get introduced to the concept of agile. Was that in the university, or was that in the workplace? 

Pepe Valiente: So it was in the workplace. And this is interesting, because first I was in contact with project management, the concept or methodology on project management. And this happened during the university. And the beauty of projects is that they have a very clear beginning. They have a clear end. And then you move to the next one, and then to the next one, and so on. 

And that fit perfectly with me, because I can try different things. I have been using methodologies for a long time in aerospace, in consulting-- well, now in software. It has been helping me a lot to understand how to move forward. 

Now, especially to agile, that's something that I learned when I was in IBM. And it blowed my mind, because the world that we live today is not static. Having a methodology that can talk to me about "focus on the value," "validate often," "go check with your customer that you're doing the right thing," it's something that I took it to the core and to my heart. 

Jill Finlayson: Break it down a little bit more. If somebody hasn't been acquainted with agile, what are some of the key components? 

Pepe Valiente: Key components of agile? Well, there are different things, but the idea is that you need to focus on the value. And this is interesting, because then your question can be, hey, what is value? And value can have different flavors. It can be monetary value. It can be a transaction, the value that I acquire something. Another way of value is more symbolic, if you may, and values at the core of agile. 

Then it is about going fast but going in the right direction. Because if you're going as fast as you can, but you are doing it in the wrong direction, then it doesn't matter. So it is very important that you experiment, that you try new things, that you can understand that what is valuable today may not be valuable tomorrow. 

So for long projects that you delay six months, nine months to deliver, for stakeholders, that time, things change. How do we adapt? How do we increase the success rate for those projects? That is when agile can help. 

Jill Finlayson: Yeah, and I think you mentioned this a little bit earlier, but understanding your customer, listening to your customer. There's a lot of noise out in the marketplace, so how do you know what signals to listen to and which ones to ignore?

Pepe Valiente: Wow, that's a great question. I will talk about stillness in a little bit and how I relate that, and it's also related to the previous episode. But let me tell you a story first. 

So in 2000, in the year 2000, Netflix was a DVD rental company. And they were competing with titans as Blockbuster. They were in the verge of bankruptcy back then. And what they did is they listened to the market. They understand what was happening. They understand the trends that were happening in the tech industry. And they pivot to streaming. And the rest is history. 

So like Netflix, big and small companies struggle to work on what matters and be relevant to their clients. The same happens to us as individuals. So what we can do to reduce and mitigate that noise is to be mindful that this is a journey. Try to understand, and try to enable signals, like having a clear feedback from customers as often as possible. Create those mechanisms so you can get that feedback quickly. And then understand that you need to pivot, not you need to change. 

Jill Finlayson: And I think you've described that speed as "deliver less but more often," right? 

Pepe Valiente: Exactly. So in product management, we have different areas. We have mostly four. So you have one stage where you start collecting requirements. Try to understand what the customer wants. Then you start planning. What is the schedule going to be? How many people do I need to do this? What is the cost? And then you jump into execution, and you actually materialize whatever you are working. And then you jump in to deliver the value. 

The proposal with agile is to run these four phases at the same time but do it in intervals that we call iterations, or sprints, which are set by a team, which are set by a company. And you run the same four processes, but you run them in small iterations. So the outcome that comes from out from that will help you understand and will help you to get feedback from the customer. 

When you talk to someone, to a stakeholder specifically or a client, and you share something just talking with them, they can imagine different things. You and I, we can be having the same conversation and understanding completely different things. So when you have an outcome where you have something tangible, people can give an opinion on that. 

And that is where the magic happens, because if I'm building a website, I can have an MVP, and I can have a very initial draft that the customer can tell me, "Oh, you know what? I don't like the color." Or maybe if you increase the font or whatever, they can give you feedback about it as if you just talk about it. So definitely having something tangible is something important. 

Jill Finlayson: So listening to what the market needs, sort of prioritizing, and then doing it sort of incrementally and learning and getting feedback. How does this concept of agile translate to career search? 

Pepe Valiente: It is very similar. So if you think about it, uncertainty is right there. And when you're talking about job searching, you also need to be intentional. There is a lot out there, a lot of resources, experts selling courses on LinkedIn, materials left and right. So at the end of the day, what you need to do-- we all need a job. We all need to live somehow. 

And you can have, I would say, two approaches. So one is you can apply, apply, apply, which will lead you to probably get a job that you may not like, because you're being reactive to this. Or, you can be more strategic about it. You can do a research. You can look for recruiters. You can look for hiring managers, go to events, network, have a portfolio available, et cetera. So at the end of the day, you can be more intentional about something. And this is what is agile about. Focus on the value. Focus on what you can bring to the table. And try to find that match. 

Jill Finlayson: I think a lot of people are feeling a little lost. When you can't see what's ahead, is there a small concrete move that someone can make that would improve their visibility? 

Pepe Valiente: We are all navigating through uncertain territories. And how can I avoid failing? That is the question. That is what agile can help us. And so the best advice I can give here is focus on taking one step at a time. You don't need to see your final destination. You need to have a clear understanding of where you want to go. Just go one step at a time, and then to the next one, and then to the next one. 

And that is also linked to a concept in agile that is start small. Start small. And some of you may have heard about the concept of MVP, the minimum viable product. The idea is that you can start small and then building from there. That is the best thing that I can recommend. 

Jill Finlayson: Is there an example where you have done this, and you took a small step, and that informed the next thing? 

Pepe Valiente: Wow! I think many. One of them-- I will give something more generic, because I think that everybody can relate to this. 

Something that we all learned from the pandemic a few years ago is that life is not forever. We saw a lot of things, a lot of uncertainty around us. And if the pandemic taught us something, it's that we could stop and think, am I doing this right? Is this what I want? Is this what I want to do in the next five, in the next 10 years? Everybody was quitting their jobs, and this very, very specific concept. 

And well, ultimately, that is where you have that power to stop, because we learned that we need to deliver, deliver, deliver, follow tasks, deliver the task, et cetera. So how can I reduce the noise, and how can I get in to prioritize what I care the most? 

Jill Finlayson: You recently read the book Stillness by Ryan Holiday. What was your key takeaway?

Pepe Valiente: Well, it is precisely that. And something I like about Ryan Holiday is that he brings old, antique ideas and concepts into something modern. And when we talk about stillness-- and I invite everybody to listen to the previous episode-- it's about that. It's about pausing. It's about understanding the value. It's about understanding the momentum you are living and how can you make it better. 

Ultimately, the idea is, how can you find happiness through what you are doing? And how to find through the things you do, through the things that you like, how do you find that moment? How do you find that happiness? Because happiness is not an ending, happiness is a journey. 

So something I learned about this book is that for you to go wherever you want to go, you need to reflect and take ownership of your path, your career, your life. Otherwise, someone else will make a decision for you. And that is something valuable that I learned. So yeah, think about where you want to go. Pause, and then define the strategy. Go for it. 

Jill Finlayson: If you have a goal or you're on the journey, how do you know if you've actually found the right moment to pivot? Or maybe you're just on a detour? Or maybe you've gotten lost? How do you know where you are? 

Pepe Valiente: Well, it is through pausing. At the end, you need to understand what you like and what you enjoy. What is out there that is helping you to have fun, enjoy the ride?

And we all have those moments when everything goes so fast that hey, what happened? What happened to January? What happened to February? So it means that you are doing something. Those are signs that something is in the right direction or if you need to pivot. Those are feedbacks. So those are signals that you can get from out there that can help you understand as you meet people. 

Jill Finlayson: I'm concerned about our current economic environment. As you know, there have been a number of layoffs. Sometimes they say those layoffs are because they're investing in AI. I'm a little skeptical of that. How do you take layoffs? 

Pepe Valiente: There are different kinds of layoffs, so it can be related to performance. And in that case, what I would recommend is get the feedback. Be humble. Shake it off. Because at the end of the day, you will hear something that you may not like. But ultimately, it's good feedback to you. Your career will not stop there. You will continue going to different-- you need to shake off that. You need to define a plan of action and then work towards that. 

Oftentimes, in my experience, what I have learned is that those layoffs are not people's fault, or it is more market-oriented or company-oriented. And there's not much to do. So you need to understand this as well and move on. 

So how to move on? I can say a couple things. So one is, start before it happens. That is the best advice I can give. So for all of us that we're in the same process, I would say the worst you can do is to be reactive, to wait for the last minute, to say, my company cannot live without me. That is a very bad utopia. That's a very, very bad argument. 

Ultimately, this can happen. And if you start earlier, if you make yourself marketable, if you understand what trends are out there, if you understand what is the technology that is going to be in the next two, three, five years, and you start taking action towards that, you will stay relevant. You will stay active. 

Now, there is also this concept about focus on what you can do. Epictetus, which is one of the philosophers and actually also in the book from Ryan Holiday, he says that there is only one way to happiness, and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power of our will. And this is very deep. At the end of the day, you can focus on what you can control. Other things are just noise. 

And you cannot control the company's performance. You cannot control the company's decisions. But you can control how do you react to that and how do you prepare in the event that that happens to you. You have options. And you can have alternatives to pivot or do whatever you enjoy in a different company. 

Jill Finlayson: So if you do want to pivot, how do you make yourself marketable? How do you make your skills visible to the marketplace? 

Pepe Valiente: When you understand where you are, you understand where you want to be, then you start building that. And it can be-- I don't know if you hear about this concept of LLL, the long life learner? And that idea is to keep learning. Keep learning. Technology changes every other day. Processes change every day. So when you keep yourself up-to-date, that is a very good asset. That is a very good skill to have. 

How do you test that? How do you expose that? Well, there are platforms that can help you broadcast that you learned about something new, that you got a new certification, that you get a new course, that you attended a new training. So there are things that can help you broadcast what you do. 

And you can also get feedback and say, what course do you recommend me to take next? Or maybe I want to study a master's degree. Or maybe I want to go to a PhD, so why not? Ultimately, the idea is that you can keep learning. You can understand where is what the world is going and that you can get into that wave. Because if we're surfing, and the wave is out there, it is up to you to decide how you take it. 

Jill Finlayson: So what does career resilience look like to you? And how have you been using AI to increase your relevance? 

Pepe Valiente: AI here is changing a lot. But I think that the core things are still relevant, still matter. So focus on what matters. And now the question is, what matters? [LAUGHTER] 

Exactly! So, skills matter. Openness, authenticity, especially in AI times, matters as much. So be a person that people wants to work with. That's something I always tell in my classes. So when I have been in projects in companies where they have rock stars, they have people who are amazing, but they treat people very poorly. If this person is not a team player, if this person is not helping, is not communicating properly, ultimately there will be something bad. So being someone that people can enjoy working with, I think that that will take you long. And that goes with other soft skills. Listen, understand, communicate. Treat people with respect. 

Now, also, it's important to say that you need to master something. You need to be technically excellent at something, because companies, they look for people who can add clear value, that have a strong skill set to stand out in front of other competitors. So I have a T model. So let's say that if you imagine a T, the vertical side is about mastering that-- where you are technically excellent. And it can be something like-- well, I don't know. You want to talk about digital marketing. You talk about compliance. You talk about architecture. So you need to be technically excellent at something. 

And then on the horizontal side, you can be as interesting as possible. Try to learn a little bit of everything in a way that you can talk to people. So what are those topics that people are interested on? And here you can read. You can listen, go to local events, listen to podcasts, take classes. 

Try to be in conversations with people and join those conversations. So here it's not talking about the weather. You're talking about music. Talk about different topics that ultimately you can be curious about and invite people to continue talking to you. Speaking of protecting your skills, stay relevant, learn, relearn, and broadcast your knowledge. 

Jill Finlayson: So if you're on the hiring side of the equation, what do you look for? And do you value things like certificates? 

Pepe Valiente: Yes. I think that those are complementary. I have seen people who value, and hiring managers that value, the experience. And of course, that's something that it demonstrates that you can do the job. But having a certification behind that, something that can support that, that means that you have the credentials, that you have the credibility. That means that you want to improve and that you are teachable. And I believe that being teachable is a great skill. So if I'm a hiring manager, I always look at people who can be open to learn new things, because universities can teach you as much. Experience in different companies can teach you as much. 

Jill Finlayson: So it's not just a signal of skills, it's a signal of initiative. It's a signal of willingness to learn. 

Pepe Valiente: Totally. I will always talk about productivity. If you are proactive, you will not go wrong. You can make mistakes, but you will not go wrong. And on the other side, if you're reactive, you will always wait for people to tell you what to do. You will always wait for someone else to tell you what to do. And you don't want to be that person. 

I was talking to a person the other day. They are doing an internship. And one of the questions this person asked me is, if there was one thing that you can recommend me what to do when I'm interviewing for a company, what would that be? And I was telling them be self-sufficient. 

Now, especially with AI, you can be self-sufficient. You can think about having the concept of a project, having that new project being code by AI and then deliver something. So if you are self-sufficient to the point that you can demonstrate something, have an MVP, have a POC about something all by yourself that you don't need to depend on more people to depend on software engineers to get something to a POC, I think that there is a lot of value there. 

Jill Finlayson: How have you used AI to get things done faster or to learn something new? 

Pepe Valiente: To respond faster. It can help you to create a deeper understanding on the topic that you are researching or that you are presenting. And the same happens or similarly happens when you don't know about a topic. AI can be a great tool, a great partner to help you understand concepts that you don't know. 

Yes, you need to be careful about hallucinations and AI telling you other things. But there is when the criteria of humans can come into play. And I do believe that the opportunity's out there. AI is going to be there. It's here to stay. No, it is, so it will be very important that we can deliver, that we can understand, and that we can experiment. 

Jill Finlayson: Let's talk about using AI to figure out what we want to do for our job. You have created a couple of exercises that you can do using ChatGPT to identify things you enjoy but connecting that to jobs. Tell me about this. 

Pepe Valiente: Certainly. So everything starts with data. At the end of the day, AI is made by data. Collect the data. You know when you are enjoying something, not doing something. You know when you are not enjoying those things. So have a diary. Have a journal where you can write things. 

At the end of every day, write three things, three things that you like. From today, I like this, this, and this. This happened, this happened. I like it. I want more of this. I felt special. I felt valued. Three things that you valued the most. And then do the opposite-- three things that happen that day that you didn't enjoy. 

And at the end of, I don't know, 15 days, one month, you will have data. And why don't you use that data? Put it in your favorite AI generator-- not only ChatGPT. It can be Copilot, Gemini, the one that you choose and you prefer. But use this data to give you insights. 

And with that information, you can also say, what are my top three skills? Or based on the data that we collect, what do you think I should be paying attention to? Or where do you think I should be going next. Or what do you think are the opportunities for me that I'm not covering? And then you will be surprised of the things that can be thrown at you. It may be like, hey, you need a better storytelling, or you need to focus more on machine learning. So now it's a great opportunity for you and learn that. 

Jill Finlayson: That's exciting, to use it just for reflection on areas for improvement, but also, these are the things that I enjoy. What other jobs require these things that I enjoy? So almost a discovery tool as well. 

Pepe Valiente: Exactly. And when you find that match, bingo! There it is, because you will be happy, and the company that you work with will be happy. And well, it's a great spot to be. 

Jill Finlayson: Are there any other exercises or activities that help people get a better understanding of what they're good at or what they want to pursue? 

Pepe Valiente: Certainly. So you can actually ask your friends, someone that you trust. You can ask, hey, I'm running this exercise. Get a better knowledge of myself. And what are the top two things that you believe that I do well? Or what are the top two things that you believe I should be more aware, that there is improvement for me to do? 

And if you pick a person that really cares about you, you will be also surprised, because the feedback will come from love, will come from a good place. And with that feedback, you can always take action. So I would recommend people to just take that opportunity. Send that email. Have that conversation. And get that feedback, because you will be surprised at how people perceive you may not be the same as you perceive yourself. And it can make your day. 

Jill Finlayson: So I think this sort of leads us to something you alluded to earlier, which is the concept of ikigai. So you're a big fan of this. What is it, first of all? And how did this come into play as a tool you like to use? 

Pepe Valiente: Ikigai, of course, is Japanese. It's a Japanese philosophy or framework. And although the concept has been there with Japanese, everything started with an article or a series from National Geographic where they were studying aging. And the question was, hey, who is the oldest-- what is the oldest population in the world? That is where people got into Japan and into the Okinawa area, more specifically. They hold the record Guinness for the oldest people. 

The idea was about aging. How can you age well? As they start digging, they realized that every person in there, they have a purpose, and they have a community sense. And there is where they start pivoting the study to say, hey, it is not about what I eat. It is not if I exercise. Yes, it is important. Don't take me wrong. It is very important. 

But what is the key factor that they discover that can bring that sense of purpose? It's about that community. And that is the concept of ikigai. And as they did research, there were more people interested. And then they defined this in four circles. 

So the first circle is about what you love. So imagine this. And if you're at your desk-- don't do this if you're driving. If you're on your desk, grab a piece of paper, grab a pen, and draw a circle. Draw a circle, and that circle will be what you love. 

And this is the energy source, the things that make the time disappear. We were talking about, hey, time flies when you're having fun. It is like that. So when do I feel energized? What do people have to remind me to stop doing, because I get lost into that? What topics do I talk all the time? So at the end of the day, it's to understand what is what you love. And here, it's important that you can capture that. 

The second circle is about what you are good at. And these are your capabilities. So this is how a product manager may realize that their strength is aligning people and reducing friction. It's to understand what you're good at. And it can be different, because I may love singing, but I may be terrible at it. And there is a unbalance here. 

So one thing is what I love. That is what I'm good at. And here to understand this, ask this question. Where do people ask for my help with? What problems do I solve faster than most people? If a friend described my strengths, what would they say? 

And you can see that people or a person may be naturally good at explaining complex idea in a very simple way, organizing chaos, connecting people, designing systems, persuading others, et cetera, et cetera. So write on that circle what you are good at. So what is your talent? What are your strengths? 

Then the third circle is about what the world needs. So what is your contribution to the world? And this is very important, because one of the mistakes we make when we are working is that we feel special. We all feel special, and we believe that someone is going to discover us, that my manager will automatically how good I am, and they will give me a promotion right away. 

And the reality is that it's not always like that. We need to understand how the world works. And here it is how or where your abilities intersect with a real problem that matters. So it's about meaning. And what are the problems that the world-- or what are the problems from the world that frustrate you? What issue makes me say, "someone should fix this?" What problem do I care about, even if it doesn't affect me directly, that I want to solve? I want it to get solved? Where do I feel a sense of injustice or a sense of urgency? 

And here, you realize that maybe mental health, maybe a better education, maybe climate solutions, maybe ethical technologies, community building, et cetera. Use those frustrations to understand and be your compass so you can understand what the world needs. 

The fourth circle, and this is the last one, is what you can be paid for. It is about the economic engine. It doesn't mean selling out. It means sustaining your contribution. And to understand this, it can be understanding these questions. What problems do companies already pay to solve or pay me to solve? Which of my strengths have a market demand? What skill could I develop that connects passion and value? Can I get paid by doing this? 

And if you find a way that your passion, what you like, what the world needs, what the world needs, and what you enjoy doing-- of course, you're good at-- and you can get paid, boom! That's the spot, because ultimately, you will find a very good place where you can be happy. 

And yeah, so I don't remember who was the philosopher that said that if you work in what you love, you will not work at all. That will be a gift. 

Jill Finlayson: Yeah, finding that purpose. And I think, to your point, you referenced if you are good at something and it comes easily to you, that doesn't mean it comes easily to everyone else. And so playing into your strengths and finding that really interesting intersection. 

Pepe Valiente: That is what make us humans. That is what make us different than AI. And I do believe that it's going to be the value that people will have in the next five, 10 years, because AI, other technologies, will emerge. Things will be automated. Things will be AI-driven, et cetera, et cetera. So data will be there, models will be there. But the authenticity that people can bring to that equation, that is very difficult to replace. 

Jill Finlayson: What do you do if what you love is diametrically opposed to what you can get paid for? 

Pepe Valiente: Oh, my gosh! Well, taking an agile concept here-- break it down, break it down. So maybe try to understand what pieces of what you enjoy could fit into that equation. It may not be everything. Back to your example-- or my example, sorry-- on the singing. Maybe I cannot make a living by singing, but I'm very passionate about music. So maybe being a producer, because I'm very good at organizing. I'm very good at systems. So maybe being a producer can satisfy that version of me. 

And then you can always find a way to maybe do a sampler here or put your voice in a song or whatever. But ultimately, it's about having a good understanding of what are your contributions, what is it you're good at, and then breaking it down into a position where you can enjoy what you do. 

Jill Finlayson: How can you do small experiments that help you test the waters in areas that maybe you haven't been in but you are excited about? 

Pepe Valiente: In this case, well, you mentioned it. Test it. Test the waters. And try to identify opportunities to experiment what you want or what are you seeking. Volunteer. Get the opportunities to talk. Go to networking events. Go back to school. Why not? Try to learn a new skill. Try to validate that if what you are saying is possible or not. 

If you're in the entrepreneurial world, go to an incubator. Validate your-- go to these events. Do your elevator pitch. Try to understand if your idea resonates with other people. So those are the small things that you must do. And then you grow it from there. Start small, grow it from there. Be proactive. Look for those people. Engage with them. Maybe write that article. Maybe offer that consultation. Look for friends who have similar challenges that the ones that you want to resolve. 

And look for opportunities. At the beginning it will be maybe for free, but then as you start growing your business or you start charging-- and this doesn't mean that you need to quit your job. It means that you can start doing this in parallel. And I think that it is a great way to start something new without jeopardizing your current income or your current stability or your family stability. You can start creating something by testing this. Everything starts with daring. You need to dare. 

Jill Finlayson: And when you have these students in your class, you obviously have to give them assignments. Are you giving them assignments that sort of force them to go out and be agile? 

Pepe Valiente: When you're teaching about the concept and you want to test that with your students, I think that the results sometimes will be very surprising to you. In my classes, I try to use examples that happened to me or things that I believe that can be valuable to them. 

And I throw them. Hey, how would you organize a wedding? How do you organize this event? Or I put myself in the position-- hey, I'm a famous writer. I want to have this broadcast event. How would you organize it? And by the way, this is the budget. By the way, these are the stakeholders. 

So at the end, you try to give them ideas that can take them out of their box or mindset. And you will be surprised on how ideas will flow. And the first reaction is, one, you're teaching something that can be valuable to them. And number two, you will find ideas that originally you believed that could be good for something and then you will realize that are good for something else. So everything started with a concept, and then you will see that people will understand it in a certain way, and they will materialize.

That is where the value resides. 

There was this student that I was showing the Business Model Canvas. And Business Model Canvas is used at the company level, mostly entrepreneurs that want to showcase their companies. It's a great method to put in one single page the value you bring, the customers that you are tackling, the cost that you will get, or the key resources that you need, and try to balance that. So it's a great photograph of your company. 

So this guy used this concept, and he used it to sell a project to his upper management. So he was part of an organization. I want this project to go ahead. How do I sell it? So he put everything in a Business Model Canvas, showed that to his manager, and then that's how he got the funding to go live with that project. 

Jill Finlayson: So even if you're not a startup, you could look at the Business Model Canvas and take some of the tips from how you would use that to pitch a solution? 

Pepe Valiente: Exactly, exactly. And that is the beauty of understanding the values. 

Jill Finlayson: So if people are feeling maybe a little bit behind on skills, or maybe they're just lacking some clarity or confidence, what sort of mindset shift would they need to do in order to really take advantage of agile? 

Pepe Valiente: Well, it is about the art of possibilities. We have been discussing about, should I stop? Should I continue doing what I'm doing as a machine? Or am I more human? Am I enjoying what I'm doing or not? 

So if you understand that agility is there for you to understand what are the trends, understand that you can pivot, that you can change, that you can adapt, and understand that as a skill that you can have, you will flow. You will flow with the world. 

And if you want to keep learning, you will stay relevant. So agility without purpose is just creating chaos. Purpose without agility creates irrelevance. The future belongs to those who dare to integrate both. 

Jill Finlayson: I love that intersection of agility and ikigai. What is your purpose, and how can you be agile to really pursue that mission that you have? 

Pepe Valiente: Exactly. 

Jill Finlayson: So, do you have any final words of advice for folks on how agile can help them move forward in our future of work? 

Pepe Valiente: Absolutely. So the real question for the future of work is not, how do we keep up? That can be very frustrating. How do I keep up? Technologies are there. I always say, by the way, Jill, that technology needs to follow business. It's not the other way around. So I want to be mindful of that. We don't go to the dentist because the dentist just bought a new equipment. We go to the dentist because we have a problem that we want to solve. So be mindful of that. 

So how do we keep up? That is not the question. The question is, how do we align purpose, adaptability, and consciousness so that growth becomes sustainable? And there is where ikigai meets agility, and it is where the next generation of leader will thrive. 

Technology will continue to accelerate. AI will continue evolving. Industries will continue transforming. But the real differentiator won't be the tools. It will be the alignment. and who will be responsible for that, solving business problems, et cetera? That is people. So be that people. Be that person that people enjoy working with. And If you have the right signals, if you are adaptable, if you are teachable, you will thrive. 

Jill Finlayson: Thank you so much for joining us today. I'm excited to align purpose with our career goals. 

Pepe Valiente: Thank you, Jill. 

Jill Finlayson: Thank you so much. And with that, I hope you enjoyed this latest in a long series of podcasts that we'll be sending your way every month. Please share with friends and colleagues who may be interested in taking this Future of Work journey with us. And make sure to check out extension.berkeley.edu to find a variety of courses and certificates to help you thrive and be seen in this new working landscape. And to see what's coming up next at EDGE in Tech, go ahead and visit edge.berkeley.edu. 

Thanks so much for listening, and I'll be back next month to talk about how you can use AI as your writing and editing companion.

The Future of Work podcast is hosted by Jill Finlayson, produced by Sarah Benzuly, and edited by Matt DiPietro.

[MUSIC PLAYING]